Oh, just realized I hadn't said this before now: nice shot!

Don't get me wrong, I see what you're going at. It doesn't make a lot of sense that anyone on the FBI watch list should be able to buy a gun. But in America, you're "innocent until proven guilty", and that applies to the federal level. Mateen had not actually done anything warranting an arrest or court order to restrict him from buying a gun. And the truth is, unless Mateen modded the MCX, he could have taken out just as many people with a handgun.

The reason I am wary of taking away people's rights based only on suspicion is because once you open the door to that, you'll never close it. Let's say the law is changed so that anyone on the FBI watch list is not entitled to free speech, gun rights, and other constitutional rights. What's to prevent those who, for example, say that they don't trust the government from landing on the FBI watch list based on "suspicious activity"? At that point, it would be used as a political tool to suppress those who don't agree with those in power (sort of like how slave owners were not allowed to educate their slaves).

I don't want people like Mateen to be able to get their hands on any guns, but I REALLY don't want everyone else's rights to be taken away based on isolated incidents like this.

@countoftuscany lmao thanks man!!!

Damn you guys have had a hardcore debate it seems, I would like to butt in here if I may. I 100% agree with the comment posted below mine, if the dude was on the FBI watchlist (and was brought to their attention multiple times prior to the shooting), he should not have been given a job where he was able to possess the weapons needed to do this mass-shooting. What scares me even more is that my aunt and uncle live in the development he was a security guard for, so if he had decided to shoot the development instead they likely would have been shot. The people who guarded that development were indeed given weapons, Luke.

But at the same time, not being a security guard wouldn't have prevented him from getting a weapon. My same aunt who lives in the Port St. Lucie development he guarded said she can't even buy spray paint these days without showing ID because it is used in making homemade bombs, which this guy very well could have used on the Pulse nightclub if he wasn't able to get a gun (which obviously he got one).

I understand everything you're saying Nick, I just find it extremely confusing that even though he was working as a security guard, he was on the FBI watchlist. Surely, if you're on the watchlist, you don't get put on a job where you possess a weapon. I believe security guards are armed, but I'm not 100% sure. Being on the FBI watchlist should mean that any chance of you wanting to purchase a weapon of that calliber should be banned. Maximum weapon you can own is a handgun. That's it.

Not to interrupt your discussion, but that's a nice 458.

Carry on!

AR-15s are mostly used for sport (target shooting) and hunting. They are semi-automatic, so they only discharge one bullet per trigger pull (same as most handguns). AR-15s are much more accurate over longer distances than handguns though, which is partly why they are popular to the owners who participate in target shooting and hunting. AR-15s are not assault rifles because they are semi-automatic instead of automatic (automatic weapons are EXTREMELY difficult for civilians to buy, and really, if you're so inaccurate that you need to pepper spray your target, you shouldn't be firing a gun). They aren't really intended to be used at a self defense weapon because they aren't designed for that.

There is currently a federal law prohibiting mentally ill people from buying guns. There is also a federal law requiring federal FBI background checks on all gun buyers. I have heard that Mateen supposedly worked as a security guard, and while he had also been on the FBI's watch list, he had not actually done anything that would prevent him from being able to buy a gun. In the US we have something called due process, which protects citizens from the government taking away their rights based solely on suspicion. That is why Mateen was able to buy the gun he used.

You see, Mateen doesn't accurately portray Muslims, yet we're acting like he accurately portrays the entire AR-15-owning population. I do not want AR-15s in the hands of irresponsible people either, but there is a lot more to this than just banning them because of an isolated incident.

Also, just for the record, the rifle Mateen used was not a true AR-15; it was a Sig Sauer MCX, which, although very similar to an AR-15, has a few minor differences. The AR-15 is much more well-known though, so it's sometimes easier to just refer to it as that.

Guns as you said get a bad reputation as they are put in the wrong hands. The majority of the shootings were committed by mentally unstable people. It baffles me that literally anyone can get guns, even people with slight mental insanity. You should have to take a test to prove you are mentally stable before you purchase a weapon, because that's where the more dangerous people will be cut out.

As you said, the owner pulled his hand gun and popped it into the small compartment. Yes, Handguns are more than enough. Leave it at that. Why would you sell an AR15, M16, AK to a member of the public? There's no need for it. A handgun does enough damage, that's all you need.

The overall outcome would have been much different if the owner were allowed to have a gun on the premises. It would have been much different. But, as you said, that area was a gun free zone. Therefore there was no way to prevent the massacre getting worse, and that's what happened. It just got worse, and worse for everyone inside.

Agreed. Omar Mateen doesn't represent the entire Muslim race. There are a large portion of Muslims that don't believe in any kind of crime, but there are also the other Muslims that do. Omar Mateen doesn't represent the entire Muslim race, but he sure does represent the Muslims that are for murder, and are for crime. His father is the same. He's been saying some incredibly stupid sh*t, that is causing an uproar.

Oops, forgot to respond because notifications disappear after I've viewed new comments on each spotting.

Luke, the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution reads "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed". And to your point...can't your property also mean your car, your apparel, and etc? ;) I spotted an R8 V10 about two years back, and as I was talking to the owner he reached back into his car, grabbed his handgun, and put it in his concealed carry holster.

Guns get a very bad reputation because irresponsible people get their hands on them (usually illegally), plus the media here (ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, Washington Post, etc) is very anti-gun and always wants to focus on the gun instead of the person. But the reality is that there are almost as many guns in the US as there are people, and the vast majority are owned by people like that R8 owner who carry them simply for personal protection.

Furthermore, the Orlando shooting occurred in a gun free zone; do you think the outcome would have been a bit different if the staff/owner was allowed to carry guns?

Looking at it from another angle, can an we all agree that Omar Mateen (the Orlando shooter) does not represent all Muslims?

yup agreed.

The American constitution states that "all citizens are allowed to bear arms to their property". I don't know how people can read that and see otherwise. The right to bear arms means you can use guns to protect your PROPERTY, not to use outside of the property. That's it. Why would you need to remove your weapon from your household? There's absolutely no need to. I just personally believe that all semi automatic and automatic rifles should be banned for everyone in the public population, and that they should be restricted to just a handgun. That's all you need. If someone is in your house robbing you, or goes to attack you, then why do you need an AR15, a M16 or a AK? Just why? A handgun will do more than enough damage, and will surely stop the attacker.

To butt in on your debate, I kind of agree with both. I believe that all automatic weapons should be banned and all "stand your ground" laws should be repealed. If you are using a gun for hunting or shooting ranges, I totally understand it. But I just dont understand why you would always need one with you. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who has not experienced living in the south though lol.

@Lamborarri, I'd still have a better shot than Donald Trump ;) haha.

@mazdafreak, Dang it. Too late Nick! Haha :) I see what your saying, and you've raised the same points as my dad did. Because the whole idea was brought up and written in the American constitution, the government can't just make a simple law removal change, and move on from it.

Because the "right to bear arms" was part of the American constitution, the entire population would be required to vote against either keeping or removing the law, which we can all safely assume, the majority would vote for the law to remain in place. However, with the point you raised with 9/11, of course you can't ban planes. There has really only been that one major terrorist attack with the use of planes in the US. Think of how many attacks have been carried out under terrorist power with guns.

So far this year, there has been 136 mass shootings in the US, in 114 days. On average, there are more mass shootings each year in the US, than there are days in the year. I believe something like 11,500 people were killed last year in mass shootings.

Living in a separate country, I can only watch and sit back as innocent people are killed, in mass shootings that shouldn't have occurred. I personally believe that all guns should be removed, because there are a lot of them that are used for illegal use, mostly in mass shootings. However, as you said, you remove the guns, the country is run by the dictatorship of the government, with no chance of having a say in anything. Thinking of it though, I can only think of America as the only country that actually allows people to purchase guns themselves, just walking into a Walmart, picking up a gun, knife and ammunition. I can say that it is Illegal in NZ to own a gun, unless you have a hunting license, and the gun can only be used for hunting.

I guess because I'm only 17, I don't have the biggest knowledge of what goes on, compared to people who are older, and know a lot more. As stated before, everyone has their own opinion. Therefore whatever I say (type) will either be laughed at by some people, or seriously read and taken into consideration by others.

Too late Luke! I love debates like this :D

Just for the sake of debate, let's say the shooter bought an car instead and ran over a bunch of people standing on a sidewalk waiting to cross an intersection. Would everyone be running around saying "we need to ban all cars because they can be dangerous."? Keep in mind, basically no one said we should ban airplanes after 9/11 happened.

This was one of the extremely rare instances where someone bought a gun legally to do something illegal with it. I don't know if you are aware of this, but in America there are a lot of places classified as "gun free zones", and no one - including property owners, concealed carry permit holders, guards, and etc - is legally allowed to bring a gun into a gun free zone. The Pulse nightclub was a gun free zone, so once the shooter got in, there was no one able to fight back to stop him.

And since you're wondering, one of the reasons the founding fathers of America made it a point to include gun rights in the constitution was so that the government would always be run "by the people, for the people". If you disarm the population, they can't resist government dictatorship.

Ben Franklin once said "those who trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither". Guns are one of the last true forms of freedom in the US.

Luke we need to write you in for this election, that was very well-said. Great find Daniel!

@Mtweedel13 definitely, such a horrifying tragedy. I can't comprehend it. @davisvehicles thank you! @21Luke21 @Mtweedel13 @21Luke21 valid points for both of you.

Yeah, that's true. Take the law away though, it will solve a large amount of issues around mass shooting. The fact that anyone can walk into a Walmart and pick up an Automatic Rifle and Bullets is absurd. It's just stupid.

When I went to America, we popped in to Walmart to go food shopping. Two aisles down from the children's bikes was the aisle containing Automatic rifles, knives, ammunition, and god knows what else.

Other countries don't have that law, so why does America have it differently? I do think that you are allowed to bear arms to your PROPERTY, but you should not be allowed to take the guns outside of your property. As soon as guns are removed from a property by the owner, it becomes a serious hazard.

The thing is, monitoring these things would be super hard, especially if there was a new law prohibiting use of guns off of personal property. The fact that the law states something like "the right to bear arms to your property", would instantly relate to the propriety protection, not the use of guns outside of your property, in public use.

I personally think that guns should just be removed completely in America. That's my opinion, but of course, there are over 300 million people in America that have all got different opinions to mine. One persons opinion won't make a change unfortunately, unless they are in power.

Not starting a debate here :) Just my opinion.

I understand what you're saying Luke, and I feel the same way (not to start a debate or anything). The sad thing is, you take the law away, people get pissed. You don't take it away, people get pissed. it's a no win situation.

I could go on forever about how much these mass shootings piss me off, I really could. However, I don't want to post an essay like comment here. It's such a sad event to occur, it really is. RIP. One thing, I think America need to rethink the "right to bear arms" law. This is the main cause of the mass shootings. The "right to bear arms" topic is where I could right the essay long comment, but I won't.